Episode 301 Podcast > Full Transcript
Lori Holden, Greeting:
This is Adoption: The Long View, a podcast brought to you by adopting.com. I'm your host, Lori Holden, author of The Open Hearted Way to Open Adoption. Join me as we take a closer look at what happens after you adopt your child and begin parenting them. Your adoption journey isn't over then; it's just beginning.
In this podcast, you'll hear from a variety of thought provoking and influential guests as we help you make the most of your adoption journey. Like any trip worth taking, there will be ups and downs and challenges. Here's what you're going to wish you'd known from the start. Ready? Let's go.
Lori Holden, Intro:
Welcome to Season 3 of Adoption: The Long View. We are so excited to bring you another set of fascinating interviews with super interesting people, chock full of information you'll be glad to have early in your journey of adoptive parenting, or at least as early as today.
Today, we're going to cover how to handle some of the most common and awkward adoption situations that will arise somewhere along the way. We're talking when, not if. Rare as a unicorn would be the adoptive family who never heard, “You're not my real mom” from their child or, “Are your children related?” from a nosy stranger or who never tried to explain to a child why they were adopted, or who hasn't had to figure out what to do in any number of awkward, delicate or tricky adoption situations. Adoption-related parenting matters tend to come up when you least expect them; when you're not ready for them.
To kick off this season, we're going to address these and other issues that anyone would agree, being prepared for, makes a huge difference, not only in your confidence as a parent but also in your relationship with your child and your child's confidence in you that you've got it; this parenting gig.
Here to help me is my longtime friend and the adoption online space. A fellow writer for Adoptive Families magazine and a fellow presenter in the Listen to Your Mother show. Barbara Harrell is a hoot. So, get ready for a very lighthearted jaunt through some very serious situations.
Barbara Harrell is the founder and host of Every Family's Got One, a storytelling show, and now also a podcast devoted to true family stories. She's also a writer and blogger, mother and wife, and a recovering middle child, and you can bet she has stories to tell on that.
Barbara's writing credits include Adoptive Families Magazine, Scary Mommy, and Motherly. She's a contributing author to the Parenting Anthology Tik Tok, Essays on Becoming a Parent After 40, and she was a writer on a project very close to her adoptive mom's heart, The Navigating Adoption podcast presented by Adopt U.S. Kids.
Lori:
I'm so pleased to have you here with us today. Welcome, Barbara.
Barbara:
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Lori. That was so lovely. I'm so happy to be here.
Lori:
It's wonderful to partner up for this.
Lori:
I know. I know. It was, I think, back to that first time at Adoptive Families; like really connecting and writing that article. That was just great.
Lori:
That was a great collaboration.
So, let's set the stage. Briefly tell us your story of becoming an adoptive mom.
Barbara:
Well, I was one of those women who are older when I first started trying to get pregnant. I remember my gynecologist telling me, “Barbara, don't be one of those women who try to get pregnant at 40.” But, you know, I did. And so, it didn't go so well. And then we did try one round of IVF with my older egg. So, you know, IVF is a is a numbers game. So, we had to Grade A older eggs. So, created two embryos, but unfortunately, that didn't happen either.
And then it was kind of really like, “Where do we go from here?” So, we took a little time off and grieved and went to therapy, then came back and we were still very committed to wanting a family. So, then we chose to go down the path of domestic infant adoption. And that was that.
Lori:
And you ended up with how many children and how old?
Barbara:
Well, one.
Lori:
Right. You got an only child.
Barbara:
And I always thought I would be a mom of one. My husband thought two. But again, it's so funny because you don't even think at the time, I was 45 when the adoption happened. Now, my daughter is nearly 13. And I remember just a couple of years ago, it's like every kid, “Oh, can I have a brother or sister?” And then you think, “Oh my goodness.” Then you really look at your age and what you're going to be.
And like right now, I think, “Wow, I'm excited about being in my sixties and going, looking at colleges with my daughter.” So, I'm on the menopausal side and she's on the menstrual side. So, we have a lot of activity. We have a lot of emotion.
Lori:
Oh my gosh, your poor husband.
Barbara:
We're nuts.
Lori:
So, you are entering the teen years and you've been parenting her while. So, this is not a new rodeo for you. And I know you've come up with a lot of challenging situations before, and there are so many challenges of adoptive parenting that often come as a surprise. And sometimes, these situations are between you and your child. And sometimes, these situations involve others outside the family; a family member or a dad on the playground or a woman in the checkout line at the store.
So, we're going to go through some of these tricky situations and the thoughts behind how you might handle them and how we have handled them and what worked and what didn't work.
So, let's start first with what happens between you and your child. And we're going to start here because this is where the stakes are so high. And this is because you spend more time with your child than you do with the lady in the checkout line. So, these are the ones that are going to come up more often and just have such a bigger impact. So, the guiding principle on all of these situations is always, always, always keep the orientation on connection and trust with your child. So, if you want trust, you need to get really good at telling the truth and only the truth when questions are asked.
So, let's start with the biggie and the one that grips our hearts with fear before we're actually dealing with it. And you kind of realize it doesn't have to be a big deal, but that's this one: You're not my real mom.
Barbara:
Oh yes.
Lori:
Talk to me about that.
Barbara:
You know, it's funny because I had been expecting that for years before it actually happened. I'm like, “Is this the year? You know, four, five, six, seven.” Seven was the year when it happened. And so, I had asked her to do something, pick up something, and she's like, “Well, you're not my real mom.” So, instead of being angry, I was like, “Wait, but I am your real mom, because I take care of you and I'm here with you every day. And also, Kate is your real mom, because she gave birth to you and cared for you and loves you. So, you have two real moms. Isn't that cool?” She's like, “Yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah.” So, which I still get now. That's a 13-year-old.
But it's something that I think a lot of adoptive parents are afraid of. And I don't know; this really didn't throw me because I was expecting it. I mean, there are other things that have thrown me, but I guess I was just so tuned in, like this is going to happen. And it didn't affect me.
So, anyway, what I said to my daughter was, “Lu, listen. I know you're mad at me. So, can you pick up your room? And if you still want to talk about your adoption, let's do that afterwards. And you know, I'd love to” So, that's just like, “I'm picking up my room” and moving on.
But yeah, I think it's one of those things that could really rip your heart out if you allow it to because you're thinking about yourself and not your child. Because just like you said before in your opening, it's like this is the truth. This is her truth.
Lori:
And if that statement makes you feel delegitimized in any way and you haven't done your own work around that, then it is going to be like a stab to your heart and you're not going to be able to respond in a connected way with your child.
But I love what you did. You, instead of making it an either or which she approached you with, perhaps as a tool to get what she wanted–not cleaning the room–and perhaps because she was thinking about adoption and this was her way of bringing it up. But you took it from her either-or you're not The One and you made it Both-And. And you made it, “Yeah, we both are real. There's not a competition here where we both.” And you outlined to her why you are both legitimate.
And then you also made it so that if she wanted to talk about adoption, you were ready to do that. Then you also neutralized this tool she might have been using just to get her way. So, she's less likely to use it again. Because if you do respond to this, if your kid can knock you off your center with a statement, they will use that over and over again.
Barbara:
Yeah, yeah.
And also, it is funny because I think when there have been times when she used the word “real mom”, and I think that's the way kids and people talk. So, I think again, from talking about the child, the inside, the home now. But in the outside world too, we're very sensitive to the language because if we've done our work that we're not saying “real”, we're defining who people are.
But kids and people talk like that all the time. So, I think even to diffuse the “real” part of it is something that we have to really get used to that.
Lori:
Yeah, you gave her tools so that when somebody at school says, “Who's your real mom?” now, she knows a little bit more about how to handle that, because that may be where she's hearing it; certainly not inside the home.
Barbara:
Right. Yeah, very true. Yeah, we got to do a lot of work as adoptive parents.
Lori:
Yeah, yeah, we got to do our work. I think that's a fundamental thing on that question is the more you can do your work, the less it's going to knock you over when you hear that.
Barbara:
Yes.
Lori:
And you're going to be more composed and you're going to be responding instead of reacting if you've done your work.
So, one of the answers that people sometimes share about the adoption story that parents sometimes are coached to do is, “She loved you so much, she placed you for adoption.” So, talk to us about that. Why is that problematic?
Barbara:
Well, I do remember I started telling her story when she was just like a little baby in my arms. And it's great when you do it that way because these things come up. And I remember telling her story–well, you can make all your mistakes when they're just little babies–that she loves you so much, she placed you for adoption. And then it really struck me like, “Does someone really love you that much that they're going to give you away to somebody else?”
So, really, we split that up. It's like, “She loves you.” And then really, to go into more detail about why she placed her for adoption. And it's any baby at that time. So, that's where I first discovered, when she couldn't respond back. She was just a little baby. So, you can make your mistakes. That's one of the great things about starting very early. You get to fumble through your story and really kind of get it straight in your head, so that you can share it with your child.
So, then it was really about explaining, as she got older, she made that decision because at that time, she couldn't care for any baby. So, it wasn't that it was just her; whatever baby came along, if that was her brother who was born at that time, he would have been placed for adoption. So, it's not about her, it's about the circumstances.
Lori:
Yeah. So, you've done two things there. One, you've depersonalized it from, “It wasn't about you. It was about the situation.” And we also know that developmentally, things are always about the kid. So, just because we say it that way doesn't mean it works that way, but that's how we choose to say it.
And the other thing you did is you put a time on it, “At that time, she couldn't take care of any baby.” So, we're trying to make it so that that the child feels less and less like they caused it.
And the reason we don't want to say, “She loved you so much, she placed you for adoption” is because we don't want our child to equate loving with leaving. That's a horrible template to give them for in their future loving relationships that if I get too close to somebody, if they love me, they're going to leave me. So, we have to do something different because that can be confusing to them.
Barbara:
Yes, I agree.
Lori:
You don't want to confuse those two things.
Barbara:
Speaking of confusing, what about when someone asks–which I love – is it confusing that they have all these people in their lives? You know, isn't it confusing that they have birth parents and adoptive parents?
Lori:
Yeah, because people outside your decisions are not maybe on board with all this openness stuff. And so, I've heard it and you've probably heard it. Like, what? They have four parents around, what's up with that? Doesn't that confuse them?” And I heard a great response to that from Jim Gritter at a conference about 10 years ago. And he is a pioneer in open adoption. He was a social worker who really kind of promoted this through his work and his books.
And he said at this conference that this response to people who say, “Isn't it confusing for the child?” You can say, “Is it your experience that to be fully informed is to be confused?” Bam, mic drop.
Barbara:
Yeah.
Lori:
Isn't that great?
Barbara:
Wow. And here was something that I thought was interesting that I experienced with my daughter. I always told her about her birth mother, her birth family, talking. And one day, she was a little older again, like maybe six or seven. And I left off, “birth” and I just said, “Mom.” And she said, “Wait, I have two moms?” and I'm like, “Where have you been? Yes!”
But even like that word, like birth mom, like, what is that? You know, an aunt is an aunt, a brother is a brother, but a birth mom? And now I hear her, when she talks to her friend, I hear, “Oh, my other mom”, when she's talking about her birth mother.
So, it's funny how kids, it's giving them all the information. And I guess these words, sometimes you really do, even that, like we think it's very clear, but it's, you know, the more clear you can be. So, I don't know, I would say drop the birth mom.
Lori:
Yeah. And every family kind of comes up with the terminology that works for them; birth mother, birth mom, birth dad can be a controversial term; not everybody likes it.
Barbara:
Yes.
Lori:
And the families come up with what does work inside the home and outside the home; how you explain it to others. So, I think that's a really good point.
And you're also making me think that with your daughter, you are sharing that over time, her understanding and her deepening of the complexity of the story changes. And the conversations that you have about adoption at three years old are different than what you have at seven and 10 and 13 and older. I mean, it's a process for them. And we kind of walk alongside them and attune to them, so we know we can tune in and find out what is required. What level of complexity can we get to at this point?
Barbara:
Yes. And I think that's why it's so important that it's not like a one-and-done conversation; you really need to bring it up. And then as the kids get older, they don't really want to talk about it. And they don't talk about anything.
Lori:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you really got to build that trust. They have to know you're comfortable going there early. Because later, when they're not comfortable going there, it's harder. It's harder. And you still need to show that you're willing to go there.
Barbara:
Right.
Lori:
So, let's talk about this because you've already touched on it. Some of the tricky situations we see in online groups is somebody will come in once in a while and say, “When do I tell my child that they're adopted and how do I tell them?”
So, what do you think about that? When do you tell– You've already kind of alluded to this. So, what's the answer to that? When?
Barbara:
It's right away; right from the start.
Lori:
If you can't do it yesterday, then do it today
Barbara:
Then do it today. Yeah, pronto. It's just so important because it's, you know, like you said, it's building trust. And that's like the easy thing. And when they're little, the smaller they are, the easier it is. Because again, you're just saying words. And you're really getting yourself comfortable and you're getting it down into bite-sized nuggets and you're getting comfortable with the telling of the story. Because it's only going to get more complex as the kids get older and you're going to share more information. So, you really do have to be comfortable. You have to really do the work from the beginning, and that's just going to save you so much anguish.
Lori:
I thought it was ridiculous when our social worker told us we should start telling them the story on the way home from the hospital or the agency. They’re three days old. They're three weeks old. What can they understand?
And then when I actually did it, because I was following all the directions, I was like, “Oh, this isn't for them. This is for me.” This is exactly what you said. “This is so that I can get comfortable telling the story, so that I can find where the sharp edges are for me, so that I can polish those sharp edges and work those through with my therapist, with whoever; the parts that poke me, I can work those out by the time my child is understanding those frequent conversations. Professionals say that your child should not be able to remember the first time they have this conversation about why that they're adopted.
Barbara:
It’s just seamless.
Lori:
Yeah.
Barbara:
Yeah, and I think that comes with, you know, there's so many opportunities to bring it up. You know, it's funny; the birth mother seems to be like, really easy because there's a lot of pregnant women in the world and it's like, “Oh, my goodness, look at that woman. That's how you were born and you grew in Kay’s belly. We say uterus.”
In other words, my aunt did not like their child to say vagina, but it's pointing at. And also, if there was a blended family through divorce and remarriage or I was always like, “Oh, that's an interesting family too, just like our family. This is how their family works.”
So, it's just really making it comfortable and relatable and that every family comes together differently.
Lori:
That's a really good – I love that you use the word comfortable because the more comfortable we are with the story, the better the story is going to be relayed and received.
And another rule of thumb I want to talk about is that we want to have a plan to turn their whole story over to them. After all, it is the child's story. We want to turn the whole story over; words and all, hard parts and all, by about the time they enter puberty. That's just a general rule. And there are – Let's acknowledge there are some parts of stories that are really hard to turn over to the child. And that's where we get some extra help.
Barbara:
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's important, too.
You know, and there is so many wonderful therapists out there, and also communities. Like I just love–Well, and podcasts like yours–just really informative and you feel supported. One of them that I really love is Creating a Family. It has everybody in there; it has voices from adoptees, from families of origin and really adoptive parents who, as you know, that we have the most vocal voice. And it's really about sitting back and listening and asking your questions and getting real help. You know, there are a lot of different ways that you can get information and feel supported and feel like you're not alone. So, I think that even takes the, you know, there are hard parts to a lot of stories. And it's nice to know that you're going in there, you're not alone, you're not the only one. And that your kid will come through this and you will come through this as that soft landing for your child.
Lori:
I'm really glad you mentioned Creating a Family. I listened to one of their podcasts just yesterday and Don Davenport, they’re such great work there. But besides the podcast, they also have the Cross Triad Group on Facebook.
Barbara:
Yes.
Lori:
If you happen to be on Facebook, I will try to remember to put a link to this group on the show notes where you can find all the information that we're mentioning in this episode.
But one of the reasons it's really important to have a cross triad information is because when you are having these hard conversations with your child, you want to know what it's like from your child's perspective. So, like you've said, Barbara, you really want to begin to understand the adoptees’ point of view by listening to adoptee podcasts, seeking out adoptee memoirs, adoptee blogs, adoptee books and groups where adoptees are welcomed and valued and sharing their experiences, their lived experiences.
So, we sometimes have people come into these groups and say something like, “Help. My child is six years old and I haven't told them yet they're adopted. How do I do that?” And what sometimes happens is people kind of pile on them and make them feel bad, and they retreat into a hole and they'll never ask for help again. But if we were to meet them where they are, for whatever reason this has happened, they're in the situation. How do they proceed from now?
Barbara:
Tell them immediately. Like you said before, I think if you, you know, today; today is the day. Make it today to tell them.
And I've had some hard conversations to share. And I feel like you always think it's going to go worse than you think, just because it's built up. But I think kids really–or I guess I can't generalize–but I think a kid will take it more in stride. Like again, the more comfortable you are with it, even though you may be nervous.
You know, I think bringing up conversation, it's always important, like where you bring up the conversations, too. I find like late at night is a good time or like in the car. We've had some really interesting conversations where you don't have that like eye contact and it's just, you know.
And then I've had her ask me questions. And if I didn't know the answer, I would tell her and just say, “Wow, that's a really great question. Let me think about it, and we'll continue the conversation when I know what I'm talking about. So, it doesn't have to be all at once. It doesn't have to, you know, it could just be, Hey, you know, there's something that I really want to talk to you about and that you're adopted and this is who your parents are and this is the information. So, I think and it doesn't have to be all in one take. So, I think that's what we forget, too, that we just think it has to be this. You know, it's not going to be one conversation again, it's for the lifetime, and I
Think if you ask yourself this question, you can find some clues to why it's been six years or five years or four years or whatever. And you ask yourself what has kept me from telling. And if you examine that internally and maybe talk with your partner or a trusted friend or a therapist about that, you will try to figure out where is that sharp point? What's keeping me from doing it and work that out?
Yeah. And I bet that the mom had told other people that their child was adopted. You know, I've always had people like, Oh, does she know she's adopted? And I'm like, Well, yeah, I wouldn't be talking to you. You wouldn't be the first one I'm talking to. So, I always let you know. So, I'm sure that the people who asked, who haven't told that other people know they've had these conversations with other people, but not their child, because they're scared and they want to protect their child. That's where it's coming from, I'm sure. But I guess knowing that you don't have to share everything all at once and that it is a continuing conversation that I think that's a huge relief. You know, that it's it's like you don't it's not like a dump. It's it's like just at this point, a six year old only require so much information and they probably know. I mean, there's something, I'm sure, because, you know, again, it's secrets. You can't keep secrets, especially in today's age. You cannot keep secrets, and it's your child is going to feel betrayed. Yeah, that's really what it's what it's going to come down to.
I'm going to put a link in the show notes for anybody who wants to know more about this particular question of How do I tell my child? Time has passed and how do I tell? The post I wrote, is called Why do we suck at adoption? Telling? And it's it talks about this concept of societies, which is a Latin word for heap. So, it is. And it's based on this idea that I got from the New York Times ethicist that a heap means like no grain of sand is in itself a heap of sand. But if days go by, if grains of sand pile up, eventually you have a pile or a heap and then you have on top of the problem of not telling. Now you have the second problem of time going by without telling and that broken trust, like you say. So, that'll that'll be in. The show notes that you can find on lavender news.com and on adopting where we keep all the show notes. So, let's go to another inside question, which is Barbara, talk to us about some of the ways that you can include your child's birth family in your daily life, whether birth parents happen to be in the picture or not.
Well, we have an open adoption and wood, and I know that there. So, our open adoption is that meaning that we unfortunately with COVID, we haven't been there to see them, but we actually go and we have family trips, yearly family trips back and we spend time together and we take pictures and everything. So, we have a lot of family pictures. So, we put all the family pictures together. So, it's our immediate little family and our grandma and grandpa and birth family. So, everybody's on the same shelf, you know, when she comes home like, for instance, and has a great, you know, she's really good in math, and I know that her birth mom was really good in math, too. So, I'm like, Wow, you know, and I share that with her. I'm like, you know, he was really good at math, too, so that's where you get it from. And just to really make those connections like how she moves and sense of humor and where she gets that from and what it reminds me of. And it's like, you know, you're gorgeous. You just you look so much like you're, you know, you're OK. And and she also we have cousins that we keep in touch with. And like they, I don't know where they run. They all like run similar. And she has siblings. So, you know, we just we just talk about them a lot. Or if something comes up on the television about adoption or about a certain situation, we talk about it, you know?
Let me ask, why? Why are you seeking these ways to bring in birth family even if your daughter is not doing it?
Because I want her to know that when she does want to talk to me, I'm open to it that I'm not going to be defensive about it or upset, you know, that she can come to me. And I also tell her, you know, she can talk to. She doesn't have to just talk to me. We have friends who we didn't really have to go too far, thankfully, like right in our own community, you know, I didn't have to seek out other adoptive families because they were right here, you know, so I let her know like if you don't want to talk to me, you can talk to because sometimes when, especially when you're turning 13, you don't want to talk to mom, you know, so it's it's other people she can turn to and have a conversation if she's more comfortable.
So, by kind of dropping these pebbles, so to speak, you are signaling to your daughter that you're willing to go there with her on these things when they come up for her, right?
Oh yeah, most definitely. I mean, I can't imagine that she would go through this alone like, you have to stop her life. Like even if you don't have the information, I really would go and seek out that information. Any information that I could get for my child. Any connection. I would do the work now because I cannot imagine her having to stop her life when she's supposed to be thinking about going to college and excitement and being on her own, that she's going to stop her life and say, I have to find out about me. Who am I? Who? Who or my people? Where do I get this trait from? Why am I left handed or whatever it is, you know, and that just I could cry right? Because it would break my heart to know that she would do that by herself. So, I feel like really, truly and and I think that, you know, families don't realize that because you are in that baby, the baby and everything is an extension of you. You really and the baby and you don't think about that. It really is about forming their identity right from the beginning. Yeah. So, Lori, you have two children, right? So, that how does that work?
Yeah. One of the challenges that happens inside our home with with two kids is when, as many families will attest, sometimes one child has more contact than another. It's just not equal. And so the challenge is you have one child feeling really sad and one child feeling really, you know, having different, different feelings. And so what do you do? People ask this all the time. What do you do when when you can't make it equal? And the rule of thumb that I tell people there's lots of rules of thumb today is that parents do this anyway. In other arenas, they do it with one child making the soccer team and the other, not one child making the advanced math class and the other not. And you find the ways to do it and granted an adoption situation is much more emotionally complex and intense than the other ones that we talked about. But what you do in these situations is you can't make it equal, you can't raise the level for one and you shouldn't lower the level for the other. So, all that's left really is to give space for the big feelings. Don't say it's OK. Don't minimize. Just abide with your child and be with them and do anything that you can to remain open and welcoming to the entrance or the more contact with your child's birth parents. I call that an open door adoption. If, if, if a if a birth parent has exited or it was never there, find ways to keep the porch light on, so to speak.
So, that was a really, really good question. Thanks for asking. The second batch of situations that I want to get into real quick are about others people outside the home, sometimes clueless people, sometimes probing people, people who may have an antiquated idea of what adoption is and what adoption should be. And in these cases, we can choose to gently educate them or not. And one of the frameworks that I like to use is from the Center for Adoption, Support and Education, or case they have something called the Wise Up program, which I included in my book. It's on Page Ninety two of the open hearted way to open adoption for those of you following along at home. And let's go. Let's figure out what the is stands for. The W stands for a walk away and in that case, you just don't answer and you're going to deflect or change the subject or just literally walk away is one of your options. The eye in ways that means it's say it's private and you just kind of set a boundary there. The S means you share something with discretion. You're never going to just spill. But with some discernment, you may share something about your situation. And the E! Stands for Educate, and here's where you might educate with general information about a.
Option in general, maybe not about your specific situation, your family. Another strategy outside of wise up would be to use humor when somebody asks you a probing or a kind of a clueless question. Do you have an example, Barbara, of using humor to
Oh yes, yes. Well, I remember one time we were in the library. Great place when you're having a little kid. A lot of programs. They had this whole big playdate space downstairs, 20 kids, moms running around, and I remember one mom, like, yelled across the room, Hey, how come she's got blonde hair? Where did that come from? And you know, I have brown hair, which I'm like, All right, and you know, I'm not going to yell across the room, Hey, she's adopted, you know, so it's like, well, it runs in the family, you know, so. And that was it. And it was like, you know, chasing after your kids.
So, that's great. And you didn't really disclose anything.
No, I didn't. And you know, and of course, you know, with that mom and like a smaller, you know, grouping, I probably would have shared, you know, like, oh, you know, because I knew that particular mom or got to know her. So, it really does, you know, it really is about who's doing the asking, you know, why and the intention and the feeling. But also, I think, you know, as the years have gone by, you know, I am more comfortable educating, you know, kind of, you know, switching it around from there or, you know, or not educating depending on that situation. You had one. I thought that was really funny. The the outside that was really good about, you know, if someone had just about when you had shared quickly a story about when someone, somebody at open adoption, how much did it cost or how much did? Yeah, how much did she cost?
And this is one of the strategies you can use is to reframe and you can say, I said, Are you asking me how much the services cost because we paid a social worker to check us out and we paid legal fees and everything. But then I followed up with How much did your C-section cost? Using humor? Yeah. So, in all of these situations, what we're trying to do with whatever strategy we use, why is up humor deflecting whatever is to develop healthy boundaries around what is and isn't OK for people to ask us and what is and isn't OK for us to answer? And so you've mentioned several times, just while we've been talking Barbara about being comfortable, so we have to become so secure and so comfortable with our story that we can be nimble on our feet when these things come up and we can do that on the spot discernment in the moment. And another strategy I want to bring up is turning it back around on the person and ask, Why are you asking? So, that lets them know. Maybe you're getting close to my boundary without having to say, you're getting close to my boundary? Yes. So, let's look at a couple of these situations that involve people outside our family. Like people ask probing questions like, You probably get this. Is she an only child?
Yes, I do get that a lot. And so when she was very little, I you know, again, depending on if I'm running to the store where I am, or if I maybe got into a deeper conversation, I would say, you know, no, she's an only child. And then as because my daughter has siblings, birth siblings, that she was the only one who was adopted so that, you know, when we talk about them and she talks about them, we talk to them and, you know, so I would always take so she wasn't hearing distance. You know, I would always take a step back and let her because she would usually jump in like, Yeah, I have a brother and sister, and I remember, like, the first time, you know, it's like, Oh, you're busy, mom. And you know, she's like, No, they live in Indiana. And I'm like, Oh, and I broke out into a sweat. Like, Now I'm going to have to go into this whole explanation. And they were like. My husband, his children. It's like, OK, sometimes it's not
As big as you think,
Oh, like, Oh my god, yes, right? So, you get so because you have this whole thing and you know, and it's very, you know, especially nowadays, again, because families are so different and and also you think, well, would have been, you know, even if it did go down that path, I feel like it would have been, you know, a good conversation anyway. Or, you know, very short and more educational because I definitely do educate and I think a lot of people's questions. You know, I think in the beginning, especially, you know, we take very, you know, offense because we're still working out what we're comfortable with, what we're not. What am I? I don't know. Should I even say anything about it? I don't know. And then we get more comfortable and you realize that people really just don't know the words. So, it comes off, and I think you really do have to give that grace just like in those, you know, online things, you know, in the community. When someone asks about this question, you don't want to scare people away because this is good. You want them to understand about adoption. And because that's, you know, they're we're all around adoptive families are everywhere.
You get the question about the only child when there really
Is a question about the siblings. Yeah, I get one. Are they related?
And when people ask me that I sometimes reframe it and say, Are you asking me if they're biologically related? Because of course, this is my son. This is my daughter. We're a family. We are related. But I think what you're asking me is, do they have the same birth parents? And then I choose whether or not I want to tell this person anything.
Yeah.
Just based on how it feels, does this person feel safe to me? Is this person important to me? So, let's go into how do we find that line between sharing and oversharing of our child's story? You mentioned before that we don't want to keep secrets. We want to find that line between secrecy and privacy. So, secrecy means we're not telling our child privacy means we're telling our child and we're protecting their story, their caretaking, their story until they can be their own guardian of their story. So, how do you figure out what to share and what not to share? What are some guidelines?
Oh, two. Well, I think it's you know, I think what you said is about safety. You know, I used to think Boundary was such a bad word because it was always used in this connotation of like, oh, like cutting off relationships, you know, setting these very strict boundaries. But we have boundaries in every relationship we need them. And you know, with strangers, you don't owe them anything. But I really do take it from, you know, I think you get like a gut feeling, whether someone is sincere and not trying to, I don't know, just have some kind of argument or, you know, you don't know where they may go with it, but I think people are mostly sincere. And so I focus I usually focus on not my particular child story. I don't tell anything about their story, but I open it up to more, like you had said before, in general, you know, kind of like, well, in adoption because they're very interested in birth family like the drama or, you know, the inside scoop. And that's nobody's business. Just like, you know, again, you can turn it around that, you know, they're not going to tell you about their or, you know, problems. S. Family, you mean their C section. So, you know,
I'm going to put in the show, notes another post that I wrote on this with some more information, and there are three questions that you can ask yourself in this moment. As part of this discernment process, to find the line between sharing and oversharing or overparenting, I think is what I called it in the post. The first question is, does the person need to know? And the answer doesn't tell you which, whether to tell or not, but they're asking the question is the important part. You're asking yourself the question because it can be yes, it can be. No, but think it through. The second question is why are you wanting to tell? Is it going to help your child in some way? Or is it to make yourself feel special in some way? And I'm not saying that either those are good or bad, just that you need to look at it to inform your decision in this moment, whether you're going to share. The third question is to try to figure out if there might be any repercussions from telling not just now, but in the future. Maybe, you know, a month from now, a year from now, five years from now. Think it through from your child's perspective from,
You know, so
Those are the three questions to ask before you squeeze the toothpaste out of the tube in any of those moments because you can't get it back yet. Correct?
Yeah, that is a perfect visual. Thing the toothpaste, get it back in. Yeah, I mean, that's how I start, like blogging, you know, and then you get to a point and it's like, Oh my God,
This is an amazing how many adoptive parent bloggers fall off at some point when their kids are finally like, Stop talking
About me? It was. I remember it was even before that I woke up. I mean, it was waking up in a sweat again. She was little and it was like, Oh my God. And not that, like every post would be like, Is this what am I? You know, very ill, so hard. And then it was like, Oh my God, I'm just, you know, and that's when I moved more to the the articles and interviewing, you share a little bit about me. Like it was so much easier to share about just my feelings about something. But it's can you bring
Up something really important is that sharing on the sidelines of a soccer game with verbally with somebody is very different than putting something in writing on line somewhere because that never goes away. So, you have to be extra, extra discerning with anything that you're putting online. Barbara, we've been able to cover quite a few situations, and now it's time for our last question. And this is the question that all season three guests are going to get. From your perspective, as an adoptive mom who's been to arenas for a very long time, you've been in the adoptive parenting arena and you've been learning from cross triad groups for many years. What is the most important piece of the long view of adoption that people tend to miss on the front end?
Well, I think that is it is about the baby, a hopeful and newly adoptive parents. It's all about baby. It's how does it stay? A baby doesn't stay a baby. That's the thing. And you know, so the baby is not an extension of yourself, but originally that's how it starts and you wake up and you're not thinking about this child's identity. And that, I think, is the most important thing that you're not thinking. You know, I remember getting her birth certificate, her new birth certificate, not her original. And I was so thrilled I had my name on it as mom. But that's that's not her identity. That's not her whole identity. It's missing her family of origin. And, you know, so I mean, a birth certificate that really should be about the child. So, I think that's the whole thing. It's my wish for them is to know to start. So, it's telling the story. It's connecting with the birth family that she knows her whole story because just my family is not her whole story, so she needs to really have her whole identity.
And I think I love that you've kind of summed this all up in the word identity and or adopted people. Their identity is has more pieces. Yes, they have their family of origin and they have the family that is raising them. And so all of those pieces, the more we can integrate and collect and help process for our child by being open and inviting and willing to go there and comfortable with a story. I think that helps them have the best chance they can at building a healthy identity. So, thank you for that. It's been so wonderful to have you here, Barbara. Thank you for going through all those situations with me.
Oh my goodness. Thank you so much, Lori. This has been a lot of fun. Yeah, we've had a good time.
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