Episode 9 Podcast > Full Transcript
Nicole Witt, Greeting:
Hi, listeners, welcome back to Adopting! The Podcast. As always, I'm so excited to be your host for this journey. I'm Nicole Witt, Executive Director of The Adoption Consultancy where we guide pre-adoptive parents, step by step, through their adoption journey.
In Adopting! The Podcast, we're going to focus on the issues, questions and concerns you have as you get started in your adoption journey. So, this is for people just considering, brand new to, or early in the process, who are trying to get their questions answered and figure out their best path forward, as well as learn about what to expect and how the process works.
Nicole Witt, Intro:
So, this episode is specifically geared to that point of helping pre-adoptive parents find the path that is right for them. On a previous episode, we talked about some of the different types of adoption; international adoption, foster adoption and private domestic adoption.
Today, we're going to focus on private domestic adoption of newborns, but talk about one specific approach underneath that umbrella. In my work, I have my clients take a multi-agency approach. That means that I get them activated with multiple agencies and attorneys so that they have more opportunities than someone who is signed up with just one agency, so things can go faster.
But today we're going to talk about another approach that can be done either in conjunction with working with multiple agencies or in conjunction with working with just one agency, or it can be done totally on its own. It's what we call outreach. And I'm going to let an expert in this area describe for you what it is, how it can benefit you, and key factors to consider and determining if this approach makes sense for you.
So, please welcome my guests. Today we have Hal Kaufman, who's founder of My Adoption Advisor. Hal started the company in 2008 to give adopting parents tools and support to help them connect with their future child's birth parents through personal networking and advertising. He started the company after he and his wife experienced three years of infertility and then adopted their two sons domestically.
Hal is widely known across the adoption community as an expert at the intersection of adoption, marketing and technology. He has sold thousands of e-learning courses, developed several hundred websites for adopting parents and has run more than two hundred Google ad campaigns to help adopting parents and potential birth parents find each other.
He develops websites and online campaigns for adoption attorneys and agencies, too. As a result of his volunteer work in adoption and his standing in the adoption community, Senator Klobuchar and Congressman Phillips nominated and chose Hal as a CCI Angels in Adoption honoree in 2019.
So, how am I have known each other for several years now. We've spoken at many of the same conferences throughout the country and in so doing have become friends as well as colleagues.
Nicole Witt:
So, I'm so happy to have you here today. Hal welcome.
Hal Kaufman:
Thank you. It's great to be here.
Nicole:
Can you start by defining outreach for us; let our listeners know sort of exactly what we're talking about here today.
Hal:
Sure. So, adoption outreach is really all of the things that someone might do to connect with potential birth parents. So, adoption agencies and attorneys, they do outreach; they network with clinics and high schools and hospitals. They have their own website trying to connect with potential birth parents. They might run print ads and online advertising. And adopting parents can do outreach, too; most just don't realize that that opportunity exists.
And all of this, you know, I have an analogy I share with a lot of adoptive parents around a job search. So, a lot of people, if they're going through a job search, a job change situation, they might hire a headhunter. And the headhunter might help them craft their resumé and get their resumé in front of the right hiring managers. But no one would just hire a headhunter and then run home and wait for the phone to ring.
But a lot of people in adoption will sign up with an agency and then kind of go home and wait for the phone to ring.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
You may be waiting a really long time. And so, really honing in on the adoption profile and getting a lot of exposure through outreach, getting that profile in front of as many potential birth parents as possible is huge and empowering. And that's really what adoption outreach is all about.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome. Can you give us some specific examples of adoption outreach?
Hal:
Sure. There's a myriad of examples; low tech, high tech, inexpensive or free or super expensive. So, here's some low tech, low cost ideas for adoptive parents. Every email you send, you could create an email folder that says, “Oh, hi. We’re so and so. We're looking to adopt. Here's our website. Here's our adoption Facebook page. Here's our phone number. If you know of a situation or you're experiencing unplanned pregnancy, contact us or share this information with others.” I mean, super cheap, quick thing to do.
As we're coming up along December timeframe, our holidays, lots of people send holiday letters out to their friends and family. And in a couple of sentences of same kind of information, “Hey, we're looking to adopt. Help us spread the word.”
Social media, again, super inexpensive or free. Easy to do. Tell your friends and family, neighbors, everyone you can about your adoption plans.
And then kind of one step up from there, I think, are these profile registries or listing services that exist online. Those are websites that might have several hundred adopting parents on there and their profiles on there. And as they attract potential birth parents to those websites, potential birth parents can filter through the families and hopefully connect with the right family. And that can be a good way. It costs maybe one hundred bucks a month or more, but that could be a good way to increase your exposure.
And then one step past that, I think, are online advertising campaigns like Google ad campaigns. Someone googles a phrase like, “How do I place my baby for adoption?” Your ad can show up. Matt and Sue from New Jersey. We're looking to adopt. Here's a couple of blurbs about us. Visit our website to learn more.” You click on that ad, you go to their website, and that's another great way to get exposure.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome. And we'll talk a little bit more about the cost in a couple of minutes, but with that aspect of it aside for the moment. Of those things you mentioned or maybe some you haven't mentioned, what do you see to be the most effective forms of outreach?
Hal:
Yeah, that's a great question. It's difficult to answer because the right one is the one that works.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
I mean, when my wife and I, I mean, we adopted our children before social media, before the iPhone and all that. Not that we're that old, but we're old enough, I guess. And we sent emails to everyone we knew, holiday letters. We built our own website. It was very difficult to do that then. We heard of opportunities all over the country and even heard from things, heard things or heard of opportunities from different parts in the world.
So, you don't know what's going to work. You could spend a boatload of money on something that doesn't bring you many opportunities. You could spread the word, again, like you're doing a job search; just telling friends and family and neighbors and everyone you can and hope that someone connects you with the right person. That can work. It can work quickly. It can take a while.
But I tell families, because you don't know ahead of time again, just like a job search, you don't know ahead of time who that right person is going to be that makes that connection for you. You do as much as you can afford to emotionally deal with, and hopefully the right opportunity comes along sooner rather than later.
Nicole:
Now with that point there, yes, you're right. The most effective one is the one that works. Are there any ineffective forms of outreach, though, that people try that really are sort of a waste of their time or money or effort that just tend to not really pan out?
Hal:
I don't think so. I mean, I think the inexpensive, free things of just spreading the word, those may not work, but they could work. And they're free and they're super easy. So, even though you may not find success in maybe that area or using social media or using Google ads or whatever or these listing services, you may not find success in some of these areas, certainly the ones that are free and super easy to do; posting stuff on social media once a week and just kind of spreading the word that way. I mean, we can all do that. You know, put something in our holiday letter, if we're comfortable doing that.
Most of the things that we teach in our courses that are inexpensive, free, that kind of stuff, are also super, super easy. So, frankly, if you can take it on, there's no reason not to give it a try.
Nicole:
And are those some of the more popular forms of outreach; those easy, simple, low tech, low cost ones? Is that where people tend to start usually?
Hal:
Yeah. If they're open to it, yes. I think a lot of people turn to social media because they're on social media all the time and they have their networks through social media. And that can be a great way, certainly to spread the word. There's mixed. You know, I have some clients that host free things on social media, others that have tried social media advertising, and the results are mixed. But you know, the results are mixed for everything.
It's challenging right now. Certainly, post-Covid, things have been a struggle. And you don't know, again, what's going to work. So, you try everything that you can kind of emotionally and financially take on.
Nicole:
Yes, so let's get to the point of the financials. What is a reasonable budget for people to have for a good outreach program or what do some of the other options cost? You've talked about some of the low cost or free ones. If people really wanted to do a completely robust plan, what kind of investment would they be looking at?
Nicole:
You know, for social media, if you were going to do social media advertising, your budget can be whatever you want it to be. I mean, I have clients who might spend one hundred dollars a month on social media campaigns to sort of drive their likes, drive their traffic and try and get the word out that way.
On the more expensive end, you have those registry or listing services that might be one hundred or two hundred dollars a month. Google ad campaigns; my clients that run Google ad campaigns are spending anywhere between five hundred dollars a month and fifteen hundred dollars a month.
And sometimes, you get what you pay for in terms of quantity of traffic and quality of traffic. But different people have different budget levels, and if you can't spend a thousand dollars a month, then absolutely don't. Hopefully, you want to save your money for diapers and other things.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
So, you know, do some of the less expensive things that can also work; you just don't know.
Nicole:
Now you alluded to how agencies and attorneys who do placements, you know, they have their own outreach that they do. And I talked about how, with my clients, I usually have them get out and sign up with multiple different agencies. So, why should adopting parents do their own outreach when they're probably already paying somebody else, like the agency or attorney, to do the same thing?
Nicole:
Yeah, and that's a great question, and I have a couple of answers. The first and maybe most important answer is because it can work. And it can work before the agency or attorneys find a match for them. So, you might sign up with a full service adoption agency that's providing pregnancy counseling services to expectant parents. And for those who choose adoption, they're showing the profiles that they have on hand. And that could work for you. It might take a month, it might take a year, it might take three years, or it might never work; you just don't know.
But if you're doing some of your own outreach, that could pan out more quickly. So, it can work more quickly. Again, just like finding a job, you can hire headhunter, but then you do a bunch of networking and it's sort of like a race. You know, I want to match; my job, my potential birth parent, my child's birth mom or birth dad. I want to find them before the agency, and let's see who wins, because in the end, hopefully everyone wins, sooner rather than later.
It also, frankly, could be less expensive. Some agencies will charge less money if you bring the match to them. And it could be five ten thousand dollars or more or less money. So, if you're spending five thousand dollars on an advertising campaign and it works for you, you could actually spend less, overall, on your adoption.
And then I think the final reason is it's just empowering. I mean, my wife and I, as you mentioned, went through infertility, and at the end of that journey, we were not feeling very empowered or {crosstalk 12:26 – 27}.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
But then we came to adoption and saw that we could do some things that could actually impact the results. And that's what outreach is. It's taking action, feeling good about what you're doing. Seeing that you're making some progress; you have some control. And then along the way, I mean, you're just getting positive vibes, positive feedback from the people you're talking to; your friends and family and neighbors and even strangers as you're spreading the word, are going to be giving you good vibes back. And it's really kind of self-fulfilling in that way.
Nicole:
Yeah, it's definitely. I can see that; having the control and making the impact, which is something that you definitely don't feel like you have when you just have to listen to exactly what the doctor says during the fertility process.
Now, you've talked about how if they're working with agencies and attorneys who are also doing outreach, you kind of see who comes to that match first. But can you elaborate on that a little bit in terms of how can the pre-adoptive parents really compete with those large agencies or the other well-funded adoption businesses that are trying to reach the same expectant moms? I mean, wouldn't they sort of almost always reach them first?
Hal:
Yeah, that's a great question. Adoptive parents, in my opinion, can compete pretty effectively, actually. And it's a little confusing why, perhaps.
But when you think about an agency or even an attorney that can do matching, but let's just focus on an agency, they have a lot of adoptive parents. I mean, if they're spending a lot on advertising, then they have a lot of adoptive parents because that's who's paying ultimately the fees into the agency.
And if they have a lot of adoptive parents, they need to find a lot of potential birth parents because not everyone who they find are going to choose to make an adoption plan. Some are going to choose to parent or whatever. And some may choose to make an adoption plan and may choose a family from that agency or may not choose a family from that agency.
So, these agencies need a lot of people coming through to find the right ones for the matching.
But as an adoptive parent, you just need the one right one. And it may take a month or six months or a year, but you don't need one a week or 10 or 15 a month to come through the door. And the agencies do so. That's frankly why they have to spend a lot.
Even with Google ads, which are expensive, but you know you do a search on Google, “How do I place my baby for adoption?” and these agency ads come up, it is true that those agency ads will show up more frequently. But there is no doubt because right now, literally, I'm running 15 plus campaigns for adoptive parents. There's no doubt that adopting parents ads will or can also show up on Page One of Google search results. It just won't be as frequent as an agency that has a $10000 a month budget versus an adoptive parent that has a $500 a month adoptive parent. You're still going to be on Page One. You're still going to get the visibility. You're still going to get great traffic; just not as much. But again, you don't need as much.
Nicole:
Right. You just need to find that one right person.
Hal:
Right.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome. So, you've obviously touched on–I want to talk about some of the pros and cons. So, we've obviously touched on the pros. Any other pros that we've missed?
Hal:
No, I think we hit that pretty well.
Nicole:
Okay. So, what are some of the possible negatives of doing outreach?
Hal:
Well, certainly there's the financial aspect, if you're choosing to do things that cost money. Adoption is already expensive. A lot of people who come to adoption came from infertility, which is also very expensive. So, there is a financial element. And then hopefully at the end of this, you do have a child coming into your home. And that's expensive.
So, not all of these things are right for everyone. It sorts of depends on one thing; the financial side of things.
But Number Two, just the emotional side of things. Some people, you know, this is a hard journey and infertility, if you went through that, is a very hard journey. And some people are open to doing more things and having more things come to them and other people are less comfortable with that, or at least less comfortable with that early on. And then sometimes, after they've been waiting for a while, they become more comfortable with that. So, sort of the emotional and financial side of things are at risk.
And then there's scammers. A lot of people don't want to do any of the stuff, don't want to spread the word. They want their agency to take care of everything because they're afraid of being scammed, either emotionally–someone who's calling and text them all the time and sort of just wants attention–or financially someone who tries to scam them out of money. And so that, I think, is a big reason why people stay away or don't even consider doing their own outreach.
Nicole:
Yeah, we just did an episode about that; both emotional and financial scammers. Do you find that that risk is increased or that people have to sort of do more of that vetting or weed through more possible scammers than if their match is coming to them through the agency who has handled that aspect of things? How does that work?
Hal:
I think there's risks either way. I think it can be greater without reach if you do it wrong.
So, let me tell you the right way to do it and talk about this in our courses. When you're doing outreach, that does not mean that you're on an island doing all of this on your own; this whole entire process. What it means is you're out there on your own trying to identify potential birth parents who may want to make an adoption plan for their child with you, or perhaps with someone else; that you're trying to connect with them.
After you connect with them and have a few phone calls or text messages or emails or whatever, you want to bring those people into the agency’s process or the attorney’s process, depending on who you're working with. So, they can, not just vet the situation, but provide pregnancy counseling services. They make sure the expectant parents understand their legal rights and the pros and cons of the decisions they're considering. All that stuff that helps reduce the risk for you; the risk of someone changing their mind, the risk of them scamming you, all of that stuff.
So, the people who tend to be victims of scams are the ones who go a little too far on their own. Instead of, “Oh, I found someone, this seems good. Let me introduce you to my agency or attorney or give them your contact information so we can sort of continue down this plan and see if we continue to be a good match for each other.” Those are the ones that can manage whatever risks exist. And again, those risks exist whether you work with an agency or attorney or do your own outreach or any combination of those things.
Nicole:
Gotcha. Yeah, that's really, really important advice and certainly supports what we talked about in the episode about identifying potential scams. Really getting that connection with the agency and attorney, sort of as soon as you can, once things seem like a viable match.
Now a lot of, or almost all of the clients that I work with, want to focus on agencies and or attorneys that work in states where there's no revocation period, once the consent forms are signed because that's something that makes people, of course, understandably very nervous; that they would have the child in their custody and be caring for the child and then need to return custody to the birth mom.
So, with doing outreach, are you able to really sort of target those states where the laws are more protective of the adoptive parents? Or does that become more difficult to do?
Hal:
The key for me is really not the revocation period, but where is it legal to even advertise, because that's not legal in all states. And so, I'm not an attorney. I let my clients tell me through counsel with their agency and (or) their attorney. I have them tell me, which states do you want to target? Especially with Google ads, I mean, social media and all that kind of stuff is a little bit different. Spreading the word through friends and family is different.
But if you're advertising, and specifically with Google ads, yeah, you can't advertise in all states. And so, you want to target states where it's legal. You want to target states, perhaps where you have friends and family, because if you have to go there for a few weeks, you can do so less extensively than if it's in another state. You want to target states where maybe ICPC dealing with bringing a child over state lines is more manageable than other states. And I leave all that to the attorney because those all have legal implications and I'm not an attorney.
So, I mean, some people may look at that revocation period, too. It's not something that I focus on or my clients tend to focus on. I leave it all to my clients and to their counsel.
Nicole:
Okay, awesome.
Do you find that the agencies and attorneys that your clients are working with, are they totally accepting of people doing their own outreach always or some of them are? Or what do you find to be the perspective on that?
Hal:
I find attorneys in particular very open to this, partly because a lot of attorneys can't do this. So, it is up to the adoptive parents to do it. I have found over time, and I've been doing this for well over 10 years now, in the early years, agencies frankly thought I was competing with them and that I was helping adoptive parents get nachos. No, no; that's what we do. So, I'm a competitor of yours.
That is really turned. I mean, now they refer clients to me, because the reality is there are a lot more people looking to adopt than there are men and women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy and considering adoption for their child.
And so, the more they can empower their families, the more opportunities will come to their adoptive parents and into the agency. So, that's good for all parties: the expectant parents, who may not have known about adoption; the adoptive parents, the agency, I mean, everyone sorts of benefits from that.
So, I think, you know, I've always for years talked to the agencies and said, “Imagine if you have 20 or 30 adoptive parents and you enlist them to spread the word about their adoption plans and adoption in general and your agency. Think of your marketing resources that you have, your marketing staff, and the money you put in a marketing. And now you have 20 or 30 other families, maybe 40 people, 80 people who are out there spreading the word. I mean, you've just exponentially increased your marketing outreach.”
And so, I think over time, agencies have gotten–have had to frankly adapt and get a little more open to their families doing more things in this area on their own. And then bringing those opportunities back into the agency. Because ultimately, if an adoptive parent connects with a potential birth parent and those two parties are not good matches for each other, now that expectant parent can go to that agency because maybe there's another family that is a good match for them.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
You know, one plus one equals three sometimes.
Nicole:
Right.
Can you share with us sort of the wildest or most inspiring outreach story that you've been a part of?
Hal:
Oh, wow. Yeah, there's a blog post on my website. There's this family locally here in the Twin Cities–I'm in Minneapolis; suburb of Minneapolis–that owned a company that made like decals for cars, and they decked out their car with all these decals, “Hey, we're looking to adopt. If you hear this, if you hear of that, here's our phone number. Here's our website.” Their car was just, to the teeth, decked out of huge decals.
And people around the Twin Cities who I know would let me know, “Oh my God, we saw this car.” And I knew exactly, you know, after the third or fourth time, I knew exactly what the situation was.
And so, I called the phone number once and got in touch with them and we started talking. And it turns out that even though they did all these decals and we're certainly getting opportunities and a lot of positive buzz, they had posted something on Craigslist of all places, which you do not think of for adoption.
Nicole:
Right.
Hal:
And I rarely think of for our adoption. But anyway, they posted something on Craigslist. Someone was experiencing an unplanned pregnancy on Craigslist, searching for whatever. They happen to search on adoption stuff for whatever reason. They found this couple. And that was the match. That's how it came. I mean that is just wild.
And again, Craigslist. It's free. Is it going to work? I don't know. Are you comfortable doing that? If you're not comfortable doing that, then don't do it. If you're not comfortable putting a billboard up on a busy highway, don't do that. But it's just one of those you-never-know kind of stories.
Nicole:
Yeah, that is pretty wild. Well, I really appreciate your expertise, Hal.
Before we wrap up, you've alluded to a few things, but can you tell us a little bit more about My Adoption Adviser, exactly what you do and how you help pre-adoptive parents with their outreach efforts?
Hal:
Sure, sure. So, we are all–I mean, empowerment is a big word for us. We are all about empowering adoptive parents to take an active role in this process. Certainly, work with a top notch agency, a top notch attorney, but you can make your own luck too, and that's really where we started.
So, we have a handful of e-learning courses that we offer and then a bunch of different services. I touched on a couple of courses. Just the adoption, advertising and networking course, which is all about understanding what are these opportunities that I could do to kind of get the word out and what can I afford to do?
And ultimately, as you're going through the course, you're developing your own personal outreach plan, literally. You know, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to do this. She's going to do this. Here's what we're going to do by literally create this outreach plan that you then start executing against as soon as you finish the course.
So, that's a great course; Identify Red Flags and Adoption Scams I alluded to; that's also an important course. And again, the big tip in that course is to work even more closely, frankly, with your adoption team, your agency and attorney, not less when you're doing outreach work. Even more closely with them.
But just knowing what those red flags are. You know, a red flag doesn't mean something's going to go south, but it might mean that you want to keep your eyes open even more. And if you have a lot of red flags, maybe those are issues. So, just knowing what those things are super important.
And then on the service side, we have profile and website services for adoptive parents. I don’t think I have said this yet. But for adoptive parents, job Number One is to create an outstanding adoption profile. Job Number Two, is exposure. Get that profile in front of as many potential birth parents as you possibly can.
You, Nicole, with your services, your clients work with multiple agencies. That's a great way to get more exposure than just one agency, obviously. And then doing adoption outreach, with or without your approach, is another great way to get more exposure.
So, we help people create their profiles, create their websites. We run Google Ads campaigns for adoptive parents; I talked about that a little bit.
And then frankly, there's tons of free information on my website. There's literally a menu item called Free Information, profile tips, outreach tips, how to afford adoption, all that kind of stuff adoptive parents can find at myadoptionadvisor.com
Nicole:
Awesome. Yeah. And that is definitely one thing that I tell people, when I tell them about you, is that you have information for people with all different budget levels and all different approaches that they can take within those budget levels. So, I think that's really important. Because like you were saying before, people come to this after having spent a lot of money in an in other areas. So, as much as they can do without piling on the cost is always really helpful.
Well, I really appreciate you being here today, Hal. Again, it's Hal Kauffman. He's founder of My Adoption Advisor. He mentioned his website, which is myadoptionadvisor.com You can also email him at hal@myadoptionadvisor.com or you can call him at 612-801-6896.
And listeners, most of all, I'd like to thank you for tuning in. I hope you've learned something today that will allow you to move forward on your adoption journey in a proactive manner that will help you to find the right match as quickly as possible. Please be good to yourselves, take care. And I'll catch you next time.